Zhang plays Mozart
No evening for old men. The youngest competitor follows the second-youngest in his first concerto of the finals.
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June 4th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Good luck, Haochen!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
So far, this is GREAT “classical” style.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
i like his tone!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
He really does sound excellent tonight. I’ve not been a fan of his playing thus far in the competition, but this is quite good.
Some slight rushing here and there, but much better than Di Wu last night.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Okay, I’m not timid. As you say, it is “classical” as it should be. It is poised, beautifully balanced and articulated. It only takes a few bars to tell the tale.
Let me say in advance for those of you who will complain that it sounds “too conventional; not exciting enough, not individual enough, etc, etc,” the reason is that he is playing Mozart, not Zhang.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
yes, i feel he was a little bit rushing at the beginning, right now turns better.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
master of tone!!!!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
The cadenza is more interesting than the rest of the 1st movement. I didn’t think there was enough articulation, phrasing, contrast or intensity… Clark, I disagree, in Conlon’s words, this is Don Giovanni in a piano concerto, there needs to be sturm und drang.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Yes, Zhang’s tone is excellent. I wonder which version of the cadenza he’s playing?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Bless you, Haocheng. PERFECT Mozart. What a gift you are to the world
I love your playing!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Beethoven I think?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
By far the better performance of tonight. His Mozart sound is very enjoyable and clean. Playing Mozart takes courage and I applaud him for it.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Thank you Clark. Yes he is playing Mozart. What a priviledge to hear this sound and exquisite playing.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Yes, Beethoven’s.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
does this kid ever hit a wrong note or what? even in Petroushka for god’s sake
he for sure already possesses Michelangeli’s one feature……..
June 4th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
@ira:
i agree with you!//hands
June 4th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Yes, it is indeed the Beethven candenza. Excellent conception of style, taste, and tone. My feelings about him have evolved through the stages and I like him more and more. I went back to his preliminary recital and liked it much more the second time. Very mature playing. I’m sure he’ll have a very bright future, regardless of the outcome of this competition.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Didn’t mean to suggest there’s not plenty of drama. The D minor is famous for it, but all of that drama (as well as the drama in the Chopin E minor) can be accommodated within the limits of the score without demonstrative, agogic rhythmic distortions, and over-punctuated personal exclamations. It is, of course, much more difficult to communicate the drama in this way. This is what separates a musician from a mere pianist.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Well, Zhang does make a case for a compulsory Mozart concerto from every performer: sure separates the sheep from the goats! One thing: I’d make a further argument - with no disrespect to Maestro Conlon - that everyone do a Mozart, *conducted from the keyboard*. And maybe that’s a fancy way of saying that the only extra thing I’d like to hear form this extraordinary young man is more leading of the band……
AGB
June 4th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
@Piano Teacher: I left you a response on the previous (Tsujii) thread, in case you missed it..
June 4th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
There you go, ira
June 4th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
A brief tasteful bridge back to the theme.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Graceful performance, but with enough drama injected to make it interesting!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Clark, I completely agree, and I still think that drama was lacking in the 1st movement. I’m hearing it in the 2nd and 3rd movements though. 3rd movement is sounding really good.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
What a magnificent evening this is turning out to be!True artistry from all 3 performers. Such an inspiration!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
I prefer Haocheng Zhang to michelangeli. Haochen has more warmth.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
…pianists conducting Mozart from the keyboard !! Now THAT’s a great suggestion !!! HONESTly !
June 4th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Beautiful playing.
Sadly, I think programming this piece is wrong in this competition. I love the D minor but it doesn’t hold up back to back with Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Beethoven 4th, etc. I think he got bad advice on this one.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
this guy has a formidable task every time - he follows sensational Tsujii, and, i tell you, he is up it!!!
I want him to go absolutely “Prok”-crazy in no2. That would be something!
Things are getting interesting………..
June 4th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Didn’t Kobrin play the D minor in 2005?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
3rd movement is really good!!! shows everything: drama,fine articulation, harmony progress
June 4th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
BEST PERFORMANCE OF THE FINALS!
No doubt!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Great job. Things are looking up.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Not bad! He was strong from start to finish.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Bravo and Brava - fabulous evening of music! Thank you Cliburn for the webcast and radio stream. Just love it, better each time!
Roger - I listened to students and their teachers perform, and drove the distance to get what I saw and heard I wanted to learn.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
GREAT MOZART!!!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
Beautifully done, Haochen! What an evening!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
John, it wasn’t his choice, this is where they scheduled his classical concerto, and slow start aside, I think it was the best overall concerto performance so far including Tsujii’s. He still has to play the Prokofiev later for the big concerto.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Wow. This has been the best night of music making!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Mozartian,
Maybe you can tell me, because I haven’t been able to find this - how did the order of performers come about in the finals??? And yes, I’m waiting for the P. 2nd!!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
I am not sure, but Kobrin did play Mozart in 2005. I love him.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Marvellous virtuoso _ and not just with the fingers. Seemed to me a perfect path through the music itself. Spot-on ensemble with the orchestra throughout - yet I got a certain sense that he’d play it exactly the same if the band weren’t there. Can’t quite put my finger on it - certainly more than a mere virtuoso (and Mozart can be cruel in exposing those who don’t realise it’s music….) but not quite breathtaking.
That said - what an evening!
AGB
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I agree with how great the music making has been this evening. I don’t know about the rest of you, buy my eyes are about to give out. I haven’t spent this much time on a computer in many months.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Yes, Sharon, Kobrin played K. 466
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Roger T. are you there. I need to ask you something about your thumb.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Just like Son in the Schubert and Beethoven, I thought Zhang brought true musical integrity and fine articulation and tone to his performance. I think Mozart himself would have been pleased with how tastefully Zhang performed his concerto.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Roger, I’m with you! What are we going to do on Monday? I’m a pianist but am almost piano’d out!!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Clela: What’s your question?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Wow! An entirely captivating and immaculate Mozart from start to finish, sounding fresh and alive with a great tone and with a perfectly tasteful classical style. What a great night overall for music. Beethoven, Chopin and Mozart. Bravo!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
@John Mc
Compare with Kobrin, whose interpretation you like better?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
I’ve had real problems with my left thumb too. In seeing a ortho. surgeon they want to do a basal joint arthroplasty on it. Are you familiar with it? I’m terrified how it will affect my playing.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
I’d also like to know if there is anyone else on this blog who has had this done and what the results were like.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
So, is Zhang the Sultanov of this competition?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Yahoo!!! anybody there????
June 4th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Playing Mozart is the kind of performance that separates the men from the boys. Zhang is no boy. He is a matured man with ten matured fingers and a matured mind. His precise and immaculate technique is probably the envy of many already well-known pianists. How’s a teacher going to teach a student like him?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
I should mention that I can do the Chopin Etude Op. 10 #12 pretty well, with not much pain on most days, but then there are times when it’s bad.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
You have exactly what I have!!! passing the thumb under with any kind of scale work is horrible. If you look up the surgery on the web as listed above and then go to LRTI you’ll see why I’m so scared. I’d love to know if any one else on this blog has had it done and came out OK.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
The doctor said that it’s the cartilage between the joint at the base of the thumb where it joins the palm. It is just “worn out”!
June 4th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Clela: Damn, that could be my problem. Have you ever had it really KILL you when you just shook off your hands, like when they were wet? And it felt like something got caught inside?
June 4th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Yes. Here’s the test they did initially. You can do it to yourself. Relax your left thumb and then using your right hand, firmly hold on to the joint and rotate it around and around. If you hear or feel a grinding sound or feel, then that’s what you have. Try it. I’ll wait to see what happens.
June 4th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
I had same problem before, but now is fine.
take a break,Roger, give your thumb at lease 100 days’ break, if you want to keep your piano study.
Most pianist has this problem, it also cause the tone thin and light.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
@Dolce, they’re too different to compare. (And I don’t want to compare a four-year old memory to a 40-minute one.) As I recall, I was frustrated with Kobrin’s 466 because this is a supremely operatic piece. With him, I felt like I was hearing a staged production of the opera, not onstage ready to kiss, die, arrange an assignation, (HAVE an assignation), or have a life altering moment (or sadly NOT a life-altering moment)–or contemplate all of the above.
I was more gripped tonight because there was less surface and more drama than I remember with Kobrin.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Mine became severe when I was working on the Prok. Romeo and Juliet transcriptions.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Clela: I tried that little test and it seemed OK. But maybe I didn’t do it right.
Dolce: I’ll be giving my had a rest this summer when we go to Maine for two months.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
@marcus
no way is zhang the sultanov of this competition. even if he took home the gold, there is no comparison. he lacks the sheer passion that stood out in sultanov’s playing. MAN that was a gift.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
OK, I did that test again and I hear a slight clicking sound. I don’t hear that sound from my right thumb.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
They did Xrays on mine to finally confirm the diagnosis. I had gotten the stage where I couldn’t even sqeeze a tube of toothpaste or try to open a jar, let a lone play. And I had just gotten a Steinway for my birthday!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
I have rested my thumb for about three weeks and it isn’t as bad. But I’m surely missing getting to play the way I want to and enjoy. (sob)
June 4th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Oh, god, I’m really feeling for you, especially about the Steinway. I got a Model B about 3 yrs. ago and maybe that’s the cause! LOL I know what you mean about squeezing toothpaste, too.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
If yours is still hurting after you get back from Maine, you might want to go get it tested also. They also put my hand in a molded brace.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Got you, John, it is crazy question for comparing both my favor pianists
but you did give me a good answer.
I am kind of crazy about Kobrin’s Haydn 52 and Rachmaninoff, since then i try to catch his concerts and information. He is philosophy musician!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
I’m so sorry!!! I can really feel for you! I hope that yours gets better. I’m still trying to avoid the surgery. He also gave me steroid shot right in the joint That and the brace, and not practicing has really helped, but it’s really getting boring. Even any kind of octave work is painful, and how much playing can you do that doesn’t require some kind of scale or octave work in the left hand?????
June 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Oh, boy, this is going from bad to worse… I think that due to the Cliburn, when I have barely had time to touch the piano, my thumb has gotten better. But it really drives me nuts to not be able to play without pain. OK, I’ll keep all this in mind. In fact, I’ll copy this out to another file to refer to later.
Now, I need to get to bed. It’s 12:15am here on Long Island. Nighty Night everyone! See you all tomorrow, I hope. Except it’s my birthday and I may have to catch up on the archives since we’ll be going out to dinner. Damn!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
just curious, except this website, which music website/ blog do you guys usually go?i am so bored in my piano world.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Wow!
Best Mozart I ever heard! Beautiful tonality, complete mastery of the music. Bravo!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
happy birthday, roger! and good night~
June 4th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Dolce, just saw your question before signing off. It’s a good question. I don’t know of any blogs for pianists, except this one. Sorry.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
@Dolce…yes, Gulda was a wonderful, if somewhat eccentric musician.
As for coordination between piano and orchestra, it’s not Haochen’s job to follow the conductor, any more than it was for Nobu. I originally thought the coordination issues were with Haochen, (he’s 19, right?) until I looked at what was coming from the podium. They just weren’t clear signals. And I’m surprised because I generally think that Conlon does a great job every time out.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Oh, Thanks!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
@ Dolce: I’m with you. I hope that there is still someone out there to answer your question. I’d like to know the answer to that one.
But it’s also after 12 for me here in Atlanta, so I’m headed to bed. I’ll check this tomorrow and see if there is any response to your inquiry. Nite!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Happy Birthday Roger, since it is now officially after midnight!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Roger and Clela
Before you go into surgery and regret it forever, you must re-learn your piano technique. I have been very involved with wellness for musicians. I recommend both of you to contact a teacher who uses the Taubman approach. We do not put thumb under your hand. Look at your hand holding the mouse of the computer…the same position of thumbs under. You must re-train. It is not that difficult. Just jump from the third finger to your thumb. You do not necessarily lose the legato because the other hand does not jump at the same time. If you keep doind the old motions you will end up in VERY BAD SHAPE. Please Google Dorothy Taubman. Her approach has saved many. NO SURGERY, PLEASE!!!!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
TY, Dolce. I will say this about Kobrin… All of my reservations about his playing aside, he played one of the most memorable Rach B-flat’s I have ever heard in the competition here. He didn’t clutter the textures, it was powerful and he gave it a true sense of structure that most performances lack. I remember being completely taken with it.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Comparing Alexei and Zhang is like comparing apples to oranges. They’ve entirely different temperament, different style and different conception and approach in their performances.
June 4th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Zhang certainly has the style, that’s for sure.
I always have great difficulty listening to K. 466, and I’ll admit that this is my fault as the listener: there’s exactly one way I expect K. 466 to sound, and as a result any interpretation of K. 466 I like also doesn’t seem to say anything new to me. Zhang was that to me: met my expectations perfectly, and the result seemed about standard for K. 466.
Don’t get me wrong - I thought very well of the performance. It’s just the sort of thing that makes me tell myself, as a listener: “Well, duh! What did you expect?”
June 4th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
@John:
so ,do you think juror will minor some points for the very beginning’s off?
btw, John, r u a musician, i learn a lot from you
June 4th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Dolce, this is a link to a video of Gulda performing and conducting Mozart K466.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BDE60E70FB073DFF&search_query=gulda+466
June 4th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
I have new appreciation for Zhang. Thought he was a little stiff in prelims, but sounded nicely musical tonight. A more complete virtuoso.
Clela n’ Rog: The blog’s about Zhang and his Mozart. So, why are you guys carrying on about your aches and pains here? Take it to a chat room, will yuh ?
June 4th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
thank you, lily
June 4th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
@John
i really got you said about Kobrin’s K466.here is his interview and recording of competition on 2005.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4966183
It is quiet different with Haochen’s.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Hmmmmm…. I certainly did not mean to suggest that Zhang and Sultanov were anything alike pianistically.
I find Zhang an amazing player who lacks a certain polish and depth, even though he can certainly play a thrilling Petroushka! I think there is certainly more study and polish ahead for the young Zhang. The same, some say, was true of Sultanov. In fact, if Zhang wins gold he will be the same age as Sultanov when he won.
There IS a comparison to be made, I think. Sultanov certainly had that passion and reckless abandon (I heard him live here) at the expense of a certain depth and polish. Zhang does not have that passion and reckless abandon. He is controlled and very musical. But I think he still lacks a certain refinement, polish and depth. Maybe a couple of years in Hannover will take him to the mountain top?
June 4th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
@Marcus, Sure Hannover produced Bazhanov and Son, both are amazing pianists. Listening to their music I developed a feeling: they make the music of their own! Bazhanov can make Chopin sounded like Liszt, and Son can make all three periods of music sounded the same.
But Zhang gives us Mozart. IMHO, this is what separates a pianist and a musician.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
I’ve only just watched the archive since I could not hear it live this evening.
What a beautiful performance in every way. Such finesse and insight for someone so young. And his level of polish and CONSISTENCY has been 100% throughout the competition. Now THAT must impress the jury. I’m still sure that he will medal.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Thanks, Dolce
I loved Kobrin’s ultra spontaneous-sounding rendition of this.
June 4th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
I though Zhang played this concerto great tonight…but Annie Fischer FTW!
June 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Annie Fischer — WOW!!!!
June 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
@Dolce.. Thanks for the Kobrin link. I wasn’t sure whether to my memory or not.
Yes, I was trained as a pianist and studied music theory. I still play, thank God.
June 5th, 2009 at 12:02 am
fresh air there ^__^
June 5th, 2009 at 4:08 am
I loved this Mozart. Those who know what it takes to play this as well as he did will appreciate what Zhang gave us in this performance. Bravo.
I only would have liked more of an unearthly flickering (=pp) in the middle part of the last movement, and the trills in the last movement cadenza are TRILLS, not triplets. But this nit-picking aside, it was a beautiful rendition, very real. This boy has great nerves, too. I can’t wait for his recital.
June 5th, 2009 at 4:20 am
@Roger and Clela: I have this same condition too! The thumb doesn’t make any noise when I rotate it. But it’s the exact thing you’re describing. I’ve had it for about a year. Xray turned up nothing, and my dr. said it’s cartilage. I absolutely believe it is age-related and I have been hearing similar reports from other pianist friends in my age group.
I will not do surgery, and my technique is too solid and too much a part of my subconscious to retrain (a close friend advised the Taubman method too, which I have never “bought”). I am a pro, so just play through the pain.
I would be very happy if a separate thread were set up for this discussion, because I know it is off-topic as far as these wonderful competitors are concerned (at least for the next 30 years or so..) but it is IMPORTANT for us to share this information among ourselves. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate knowing I’m not alone out here. Please? Thank you!!
June 5th, 2009 at 4:38 am
Beautiful tone - lovely Mozartian style - I just feel the beat every four notes a little to much, like in many previous performances of him. It would be even better without this metronome feeling.
In the syncopated parts gets better.
Nontheless, this is very professional playing and very safe, someone who an agent can trust, and that is very important.
June 5th, 2009 at 6:06 am
Just listened to Haochen’s Mozart again. What a gift this young man has! And his level of consistency in this competition is so impressive. I had the pleasure of visiting with him last week and he is very much like his playing — mature, humble, etc. I look forward to hearing a lot about him in the years to come.
June 5th, 2009 at 7:02 am
The cadenza was fantastic
June 5th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Maestra
Please DO NOT PLAY with pain. Rest as much as you can between practice sessions. If the music is important, PLEASE re-train. I have followed your comments and we need you healthy
June 5th, 2009 at 10:19 am
@Rui: Your comment is exactly why I feel uncomfortable with Hoachen. I admire his playing, but it always feels to me that he is mostly executing his rigorous training. It’s as if he were wearing a psychic straightjacket. I know this is a presumptuous comment, and I’m typing it with hesitation. In each of the three performances so far, I have longed for him to sign off on his training, go make rampaging music for four years, and come back to the Cliburn in 2013. I don’t feel like I know anything about him. I even sense that he doesn’t know himself — and that is *really* presumptuous. I’m not given to psychic meanderings, but I have this feeling that there is a mountain of musical personality inside Hoachen that he has not started climbing.
June 5th, 2009 at 11:21 am
@ Piano Teacher
My little grand daughter started her piano study two years ago with an excellent teacher from China now in the DFW area. I watched very carefully so I could help her practice because a great deal of the lessons were on hand position and related problems. The teacher stressed the importanceof avoiding bad habits in very young students.
June 5th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Just stopping in to note that if were more clever, I’d have written “No concertos for old men”, to make it more consonant with the reference. Ah well, l’esprit de l’escalier.
June 5th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
@Piano Teacher: Thanks
very kind of you
June 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
@Brad - I echo your sentiments exactly. I also sense he doesn’t know himself yet. How could he? He just turned 19 and has probably done little else but practice the past 15 years. His Mozart was still wonderful - but the best prize this jury could give him is TIME
June 5th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I was thinking whether I should rain on y’all’s parade - but his note perfect Mozart did NOT have any dramatism in it… Oh well….
June 5th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
What “drama” is like in Mozart is very much up to the listeners’ “taste”. However, just as Conlon said, this is a “Don Giovanni” of piano concertos. In some ways not quite as dramatic as C minor K 491, but still full of dramatic content and contrasts. One of the worst things that could happen to a young “competition winner” would be to be judged an accomplished player but a shallow musician. Zhang is extraordinarily talented, and plays very, very well. On this piece, however, he was not able to deliver on what most musicians should know - the knowledge and *understanding* (which are not the same thing) of Mozart’s operas and other works which explore the composer’s painful and darker emotions are paramount in the interpretation of such a work. I find it disappointing that a lot of people deemed this a “perfect” performance. It would not receive this kind of judgement by many critics and musicians in the “real world”. And maybe this has nothing to do with his age (Zhang plays with the kind of authority and consistency one seldom sees in a young performer). Maybe he just doesn’t get or understand the connection Conlon was mentioning - which is something that many musicians several times his age also do not “get”.
June 5th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Let them say what they want to, for which Mozart is not to response at his side.
Things change as they wish in performers’ power of will. Oh, there are so many performers in this piece…
June 11th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
I am reminded of the movie Babette’s Feast when I listen-to/watch this webcast together with reading everyone’s real-time responses here … again and again. What a feast!
Congratulations Haochen …!!!